Verrkabelung Laubersheimer Zündverteiler

Dear rkharma,
it would be nice if you can sign all your postings with your real firstname. This is a rule for more friendlyness at this forum.
I am not sure what kind of ignition you have and what kind of problems you have.
Do you have a electronic (Transistor) ignition from Laubtec (Laubersheimer) ore a different kind?
Which coil you are using.
Which kind of sparks and sparkplugs you are using, civil or mil kind?
So you must send us all your details that we can assist.
 
Dear Jurgen

Thank you for the feedback and the note about the signature will sure do so on my future posts

For the ignition system, it is all civil not military. For the ignition and based on previous posts under this thread by Ulli it should be a Laubersheimer in all cases this is a picture.
20231120_180233.jpg

The ignition coil is a BOSCH 24V, looks a bit old
20231120_180308.jpg

And finally for the spark plugs they were NGK BP6ES, I replaced them recently with HELLA YH7RCP-11U
20231120_180345.jpg

Thank you for the support

Regards
Rabih
 
Hello Rabih,

Is the coil the same as it was coming from Ulli or is the coil changed on your side.
If you changed the coil why?
Do you have a Bosch No of the coil?
Do you changed any thing in the wiring since the Unimog came from Ulli?
Why you selected the HELLA YH7RCP-11U spark. This is not compatible with your former NGK BP6ES.
The Hella spark has a different heat value than usual for this motor. Also the gap (1,1mm) is a wider as the usual Bosch WR7DC (0.7mm). The original gap for the 404 was 0.5mm.
Did you checked the ignition timing?
 
Dear Jurgen

I did not change the coil, it is still as it came from Ulli, I only changed the spark plugs and their cables. The new cables are not 90 degrees at the distributer but they are a good fit on the engine as 5 are long and the first one is 90 to fit next to the distributer.
I ordered a coil as spare just not to have a dead machine should something happen to the coil as 24v coils are hard to get. I could not get more info on the coil will try to clean it a bit over the weekend and try to get a model # or the ohms.
Now I understand that the Hella spark plugs are not a good, should have know better than to trust the shop and should have done my research. I did some inquiries today but the best I could find was Bosch WR8DC it has a 0.8 gap which i believe it is better than the 1.1 gap but still did not buy a new set will shop arround a bit more.
For the ignition, I checked it, I have a strobe light and marked the front pully/damper at TDC, might be a bit off but double checked when I removed the engine valve cover and turned the engine by hand. For this I have two issues one is that the wheel has no markings for the degrees, second problem is that when I try to turn the distributer I cannot turn it more because the cover clip is hitting the engine valve cover. I can try to remove it and position it differently but I am not sure if this is correct. For the degree marking, I wanted to measure the balancing wheel diameter and calculate how much each degree woul be in cm on the circumference and mark it on a sticker and stick on the balancing wheel just to fix the ignition.
I noticed that the rotor head is broken, it works but not sure how, I had ordered a spare bosch one but it doesn't fit, have to check the exact model number.
IMG-20231121-WA0002.jpg

Regards
Rabih
 
Dear Rabih,
with such broken rotor the ignition can't work proper, so first fix this problem.
Also the Bosch WR8DC has not the best heat value, I still recommend WR7DC type. Not only I have good expierence with this type on the 404 engine.
Normaly there are degree marks in 5 degree steps on the front counterweight wheel. Maybe you have to clean it. Otherwise your approach will work.
 
Dear Jurgen,

Thank you for all the information. For the spark plugs i will try to find the exact model you advised, i might have to import them myself, car parts dealers usually don't hold items that have slow turn over and for this they only know that there is hot or cold spark plug and not a whole range :D

I will replace the rotor head, just to be sure it should b e a 5Kohms one correct? Bosch have a 1Kohms and a 5kohms, the BERU model EVL029 that is there but broken is a 5Kohms.

Just one more question about the carburetor this time, i ordered a choke cable as the one i have is loose and it doesn't pull back properly. But i was wondering about the exact position on the choke when it is closed. When it is activated (lever pulled) if you look at the carburetor from behind (the cabin side), the lever is on the left touching the "stop", when the choke is off (level pushed back down), the lever should be in the middle like vertical or all the way to the right touching the "stop". If i turn mine all the way to the right the engine dies but this is another story first i will get recheck and try to get the timing correct and the rotor head then will try to tune the carbs again. Regarding the timing, should i remove the vacuum cable while adjusting it or not? I know that when i rev up the engine more than 1500 rpm i can see that the TDC move further to the left (looking at the engine form the front) meaning the ignition is happening even further before TDC.

Regards
Rabih
 
Dear Rabih,
the 5 kohm rotor is ok, but I am not sure with the correct number as you have a civil not the MIL distibutor cap.
On the MIL version the Beru EVL4/6z1 or Bosch 1 234 332 088 is used.
For adjustment of the ignition timing everything needs to be ormal. So if your ignition has vaccum adjustment so use it also for the right timing adjustment. Same to the centrifugal force adjustment. You have to use the values from the repair manual.
The choke needs to 100% closed in normal running mode of the engine. Only in cold weather conditions the choke needs to be opended just to start the engine. Than as fast as possible the choke has to be closed.
 
Dear Jurgen,

Yes the Bosch 1 234 332 088 is 5Kohms and I have one but it does not fit, the axe is too large and the rotor does not go in, I am looking at Bosch 1 234 332 261 which is 5Kohm there is a 1 234 332 271 it is 1Kohms.
For the choke, I just wanted to know if 100% closed means vertical or all the way tilted to the right (looking from the passenger cabin at the carburetors).

Thank you again

Regards
Rabih
 
Dear Rabih,
if the axis of the Bosch 1 234 332 088 is to long you can shorten this a little. The reason is not a wrong rotor but the position of the magnetring of the electronic ignition. Normally there is limit other than the top of the carburator axis. But no the ring is limiting the way down. Maybe this is also the reason why the old rotor break.
The choke lever has two mechanical limits on the choke housing. Left limit full open, right limit full closed. For normal engine operation the choke needs to be full closed.
 
Dear Jurgen,

Thank you for all the information. The issue is not with the length but the diameter. I have an old distributor from my 280GE, it is different but the rotor has same diameter, the BERU one fits but the BOSCH does not, I tried to force it on the old distributor but it cracked, anyways I improvised with some epoxy and was able to fit it :D
I searched for new one that fits (carrying the old distributor with me and going from shop to shop and making sure it fits) :D I found two one new and one used but after some research I will not use them as they are 1Kohms and not 5 Kohms.
For now I used the new bosch one held together with epoxy until a new BERU one that I ordered arrives.
For the spark plugs I removed the Hella and put back the NGK BP6ES . I also searched the local market but they only have BOSCH with heat factor of 8 or NGK 5, not a good fit. For now will keep the NGK BP6ES and I ordered two new sets as well one BOSCH and one NGK should arrive with the rotor in 2 to 3 weeks.
The good news is that even with the current spark plugs and the "glued" rotor, I was able to get some good idling for the first time :D the engine sounded great idling at 800rpm, with no choke. Before that i could never reach 800rpm, the engine would die if i fully close the choke and would only run at rpm above 1500 and yiu could hear a lot of random missfire. Oh I almost forgot, I rechecked my TDC, I had a scope camera inside the 1st piston from the spark plug whole and working arround TDC and cleaned the counterweight wheel and found the markings and adjusted the timing also :lol: not sure but I had it somewhere between 15 and 20 at 800 rpm
The engine idles good now, it ravs up good as well without hesitation. I took it out for a drive today, not easy the parking is underground so I have to backup to the main street on a uphill which was challenging but successful, good it is Sunday not too much traffic :D , then drove it on mostly flat road. It is not very smooth, I feel it missfires at high rpm, although when I reve it up in the garage there is no backfire, the engine has power I was able to cruise on 6th gear. The challenge is still when I slow down it shuts down and at low speeds it feels rough and switches off.
Will wait for the new spark plugs and rotor replace them along with the distributor head. Meanwhile how can I measure the resistance betwen the coil and the spark plugs, I read that it should be in the 13 Kohms range, is that correct? I know the rotor is 5, but not sure about the new cables, can I use a simple multimeter to measure the ohm of the coil to distributor cable and the spark plug one? Then will add them up to see if the total is arround 13koms
:danke
Regards
Rabih
 
Dear Rabih,

this sound good for the moment.
Yes, you can measure the connection from coil to sparkplug with a normal multimeter if the rotor is in the correct position. But the resintance is not such essential for good spark. This is more for electromagnetic noise cancelation.
 
Dear Jurgen,

After getting a new rotor and new spark plugs and changing them, the Uni is running very well, it idles very well and there is no smoke or misfires, I was so happy and was planning to take it for an official drive over this Christmas vacation, unfortunately it is still not that good, when i rave it up slowly the engine dies, if I push on the gas quickly it works but I cannot get the engine to run at 1,500 or 2,000 rpm it dies. I tried to work on the ignition advance but it did not help, I think I have to check the carburetors now or should I check something else?

Thank you and Happy Holidays

Rabih
 
Dear Rabih,

did you checked the iginition with a stroboscope only on idle speed or also on higher speed. Did you see a change of the ignition timing? This is necessary and shows if the centrifugal force adjustment works ok.
Did you checked the valve clearence?
Did you checked gasoline supply? You can try to use a small bottle with gasoline placed just above the carburator instead of the the normal gasoline supply.
Did you checked the air filter? What happens if you try without air filter for a test?
 
Dear Jurgen,

Thank you for all the information. On New year weekend I was finally able to drive my Uni :lol: :D . I had already checked the valve clearance, I might do it again soon. All the other points you mentioned I already checked, fuel lines, air filter ... the last two things I did so that i was comfortable enough with it to drive was to re-adjust the timing to be around 15 and not 20 at around 1,000 rpm and I cleaned the carbs again and changed the rubber seal on the "pump" of one of them.
It drives good now, has good power I had no problem driving it some 15 km up hill (from almost zero sea level to 800m) it was mostly on 4th and 5th gear. It still dies from time to time specially when driving downhill and i have to brake and do a tight turn, I guess the power steering and the air pump for the brakes pull more power than the idle speed of the engine can handle. Overall it is fine and i enjoyed driving it around small roads over the new year :D Not sure what is next maybe some paint work to get the engine cover to match the blue of the cabin.
Thanks again

Rabih
 
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